Evaluating Ohio State football’s loss to Miami in the 2025 Cotton Bowl: Buckeye Talk podcast

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:04.302)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means, Estefan Christen, and that is Andrew Gullis. Ohio State’s season has come to an end after a 24 to 14 loss to Miami in the Cotton Bowl. The Hurricanes will play the winners between Georgia and Ole Miss in the Fiesta Bowl next weekend, and the Buckeyes won’t play another college football game until next August or September, whatever way the calendar kind of falls there. So there’s almost like two ways to look at this.

stuff on there’s like the OK, but within the season and then there’s like the bigger picture conversation about where this program maybe is headed and you you you’ve been talking about some of this stuff. It feels like every issue that we have maybe had with this Ohio State football team for 13 games finally bit them and game 14 and now their season is over because of those things. Yeah, if you it’s so funny, like if you looked at this game and I wrote about it at the buzzer just.

Okay, what’s things that hurt them? Okay, issues on the right side of the offensive line. We’ve been saying that for a while. Kicker, we’ve been saying that for a while. Red zone issue, like the first pick that pick six came in in their first red zone drive. That’s an issue. You know, one thing that like, varies kind of tongue in cheek, we talked about as an issue was like Jeremiah Smith’s blocking.

that ended up being crucial on that pick six. Like everything that went wrong for Ohio State, it kind of feels like to some extent we had mentioned it this year and maybe it was viewed, I’m saying like fans viewed it this way, I think we probably viewed it ourselves as like, we’re probably nitpicking this team a little bit,

I just kept thinking about after that Penn State game when Ryan Day had his weekly presser and he talked about how they had had a team discussion about how it was a stone that killed Goliath and the story of David versus Goliath and all that. And it just stuck with me where it was like, I think Ryan Day knows that some of these issues could end up causing them.

Stephen Means (01:55.954)

And it all happened in the same time. And frankly, it happened against Indiana, too. Like a lot of those issues are why they lost against Indiana as well. And you kind of sit here and you look back at this season, you say, yeah, I guess we kind of knew that this would be how they would lose. Right. Because I think another thing, too, is like.

We had spent so much of season saying when they need to step on it, they can step on it offensively. Maybe that was a stone as well of like, I don’t know, are we certain that when they need to step on it, they can step on it? So you kind of look at this game, it kind of feels like a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong in Spurs this season. And it’s a shock. It’s a weird way for the season to end because there was so much promise. And after that Michigan game, you’re thinking to yourself.

This team is so good. They’re undefeated.

and they just finally got over the hump of beating their rival. And then they lose their next two games and the season’s over. And it feels like, it feels just very incomplete when you look at what this team did this year. like you said, it makes for some interesting conversations going forward about what’s next for the program. And when you say like, what’s next for the program, I don’t think any of us worry about like a bottoming out type of thing, but it’s like, okay, how do you get back to the mountain top, winning a national championship, right? Because we can talk about how great Ohio State has been over the course of the last 50 years.

But their national championships usually come 10 years apart. This is not a team that was like Georgia winning back to back. So Bama winning one every other year. This is a great program that has kind of these gaps and gap being a relative term because there’s programs like.

Stephen Means (03:27.818)

the team that just beat them or Nebraska where the gaps are a lot, a lot wider. But it’s an interesting spot for the program and what’s next in terms of trying it back to a consistent level. It starts with addressing a lot of those things that have been an issue throughout the season. maybe like we look at kicker and right guard, maybe you go back even to next season. It’s like these were stones that we saw last season too that carried into this year and wound up costing you. So it’s a very interesting spot and a very weird ending to the season that has so much promise.

Cause it’s like to that point that Andrew, because it’s like, it’s one thing to go like, oh, how does Ohio State lose a football game? It’s another thing for it to actually play out that way. Is there any part of you that’s like, cause we, how many times did we ask this year, Hey, what are the issues? Okay. Are they bad enough that it will cost Ohio State the game? And the fact that starting with the offensive line, Julian sang out sex 16 times this season, Indiana and Miami are responsible for 10 of them. Like, I don’t know if, could you have projected that?

coming off of that win over Michigan, that a guy who had been sacked six times heading into the postseason would essentially triple his number almost. That’s crazy. That’s a good way of summing it up. Yeah, I’m trying here. Everything, I think, is now under evaluation.

I think it’s totally fair for fans to sit there. I’ll stick with the offensive line because there’s a bigger point that you were talking about on the field that I could bring up. I’m going to stick with the offensive line. I think there’s an element of.

This is where maybe recruiting battles have ditched in the behind because you didn’t really feel like you had an option at right guard for a couple of months now because everybody that had been listening to this and watching Ohio State football, which is everybody that’s listening to this, went, is a problem and they got to figure it out. And they didn’t feel like they had an option. And I think tonight maybe showed you why. Is that a question of development with Tyler Bowen?

Stephen Means (05:41.556)

He’s just in his first year and offensive line play can take a little bit and blah blah blah. But like it’s a coaching issue because it’s a unique situation with the offensive line because there’s two guys and there were two very, you know, distinct delineations there where we talked about Justin Fry and recruiting. So it’s like, maybe this is where that showed up and maybe this is where tonight showed up because you lost Sarah Bell and he goes down and.

you lost Van Sickle because he couldn’t hack it, right? And now, you know, you just kind of look at it and you say you didn’t have the options. You didn’t have, you know, the guys ready to go. So is that development? Is that recruiting? Is that scheme? I don’t know. They seem to figure some stuff out in the second half. It’s just…

I guess I’ll go into it now. They were slow to react, it felt like, to things tonight, and it felt like they were slow to react to things kind of all year. I mentioned this a couple of times, sometimes when you try to shift into fifth gear, you stall for a minute, and they did tonight. And they were down 14-0, and I know one of those plays was a pick six, but they stalled, and they were slow to get out of the gate, and it cost them. Miami scored 14 points in what, like quarter and a half, and they had a pick six, and then they scored

the final touchdown, which Ohio State literally let them score. But they were probably going to score anyway, or at least right on the clock. So it’s like they were slow to react to kind of cranking the offense into gear. I don’t know if it would have changed anything, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable question to say. I don’t know, had you played Josh Padilla against Illinois? Had you played some of these guys maybe a little? Van, have you gotten him a little more Padilla injury, obviously. The Padilla injury hurt, but you start to wonder, all right, maybe.

Maybe this, know, maybe if you had done that, maybe you’re in better spot. Maybe Gabe Vance Hickle doesn’t struggle like he did tonight. Like Ryan Day, it’s very rare, I think, for him to point out an individual struggles. And he mentioned Gabe Vance Hickle did struggle tonight in his first game.

Stephen Means (07:42.318)

I think they were slow to react to the kicking game. I understand maybe you don’t have an option, but everybody watching this or listening to this, none of you guys had confidence that Jaden Fielding was gonna make that kick. And that’s not because he missed three kicks beforehand, it’s because you knew what was going on. And it just, they put themselves behind the eight ball for a lot of these situations, the offensive line, the play calling, personnel changes, staff, it just, it felt like some of this was avoidable and they were reactive.

not proactive and that was why I credited them for making that switch to today from heartline from the play calling because I thought that they were trying to get ahead of a potential problem in the road. But there were just too many issues this year where in an emergency when you got to go 100 miles an hour, it took them a minute and it cost them the game and it cost them the season. With that being said, if Julian Sand doesn’t throw a pick six, I think they win this football game.

Yeah. So it’s like that’s that’s kind of the football element to it. Like sometimes you lose football games because football stuff happens like talking about like that was an amazing play by Katya Scott. Right. And so the reason I bring that up and I’ve brought up jokingly a couple of times now, but just like all the things we’re talking about are true.

But I think part of the reason we always look at it and we’re like, are we nitpicking this team? Are we nitpicking this team? Is because sometimes I think we go so far down the road of Ohio State lost the game because of all these different issues that we almost devalue the fact that like sometimes this is a matchup game. And sometimes matchup games come down to simply they try to throw a bubble screen to Brandon and it’s Jeremiah Smith missed the block. And if you miss a block on a bubble screen.

Either the play is going to get blown up and it’s a loss of yards or trying to be a pick six. Best case scenario, he over jumps it, Brandon, and it gets it anyway. And now it’s one on one and he gets a touchdown out of it, right? That’s what a bang bang play is. So I almost want to like how much of it is like Ohio State’s own flaws costed its season versus Miami’s a good football team and they lost to a good football team. We’re like, you’re right. They lost by 10 points.

Stephen Means (09:55.81)

from a betting measurement, but that’s because they allowed them to score because they wanted to make sure they had enough time to do something after that. So I get that. like how much, if we had to give a percentage of how much of why Ohio State lost tonight is because Ohio State and its own flaws versus.

I don’t know, Miami’s pretty good. Carson Beck made some plays with his legs that maybe none of us were anticipating him making. And it came down to one bang bang play that essentially allowed Miami to steal seven points. On what would have been a red zone, would drive that wouldn’t been points for us if they were in the red zone. Yeah, I guess you can’t guarantee points because it wasn’t a touch. I might have missed the field goal, but.

Stephen Means (10:35.093)

I think maybe the best way to say, cause yeah, don’t, you don’t want to take away from what Miami did. I don’t think that’s what we’re doing. I think we’re just talking about Ohio State because we cover Ohio State, but I think you can look at this and say Miami’s players made more plays in big situations than Ohio States did, but it also felt like Miami’s staff put their players in better positions to make those plays consistently than Ohio State staff did. And some of that might be staff shuffling. Some of that might be everything that’s gone into.

Ohio State get into this point in terms of where it is offensively, right? There’s their approach throughout the season. Was that maybe the right thing to do? Was that the wrong thing to do, right? So like there’s a lot that goes into this. So yeah, Miami made the plays. But if you’re an Ohio State fan, you’re also telling yourself it felt like their staff, Miami staff, put them and put their players in better positions, right? Because like it felt like it took too long. Like I was reading some of the text that Andrea sent to our text or 614-350-3315 from Ryan Day’s press conference.

And Ryan was asked about like, you know, we’ve all been kind of waiting for foot on the pedal. Do you feel like maybe that, you know, wasn’t necessarily as easy to do or however the question was phrased. And Ryan Day’s kind of response was like, well, we did start going tempo. It’s like, well, it was kind of too little too late. And like, why, why was that not part of the plan coming into this thing? I have a problem. I felt like Miami, they felt like Ohio State coaches didn’t necessarily always put their players in the best position either. I have a problem with that answer. I wasn’t in there. I was in the locker room. I talked with Matt Patricia. talked with Tyler Bowen.

I don’t like that answer at all because it’s almost missing the point of

put your foot on the gas. I think we’re not asking you how many times you went hurry up. Okay, so the exact thing is on the idea of pushing the gas pedal at the right time on offense. They said they played with Temple today, but they’ve got to make sure they’re getting the right plays and doing what they need to get first out. It wasn’t done near good enough. In essence, they weren’t able to get started. I don’t like that. That’s not, we’re not asking you how come you didn’t go no huddle, hurry up, football.

Stephen Means (12:40.141)

for 60 minutes, we’re asking you have weapons that it doesn’t feel like you always maximize and use on a weekend and week out basis and you’re playing slow. You drove the speed limit with Lamborghini. But it doesn’t even feel like you’re driving the speed limit. That’s the thing. It’s it almost feels like sometimes it’s 45 miles per hour and they’re going 25 in an effort to.

Maximize efficiency while minimizing impact sometimes, right? It’s a thing now the concept of They if you look at how many plays they’ve played this year. They have essentially shaved off like two games worth of plays For the for the long haul because they’re looking at the bigger picture. They are load managing the season, but they’re doing it in a way that They’re almost playing against what their nature is

And then you’re just expecting to just do what you’re supposed to be able to do naturally whenever you want to do it. So it’s not about for me, snapping the ball every seven seconds. It’s you’re not snapping the ball every seven seconds.

You’re not being aggressive. You’re not being innovative. You’re not being creative with your passing attack. How many times have we had the conversation where it felt like their offense was run on first down. If you get to second and short, maybe you’re taking a shot run on second down. If not, you have to drop back with a young quarterback with an offensive line that is iffy and hope it works out or with Jeremiah Smith and and and Cardinal Tate. It’s not like intermediate stuff. It’s not little hitches. It’s not like easy quick and

easy first down completions, it’s a play action deep shot down the field. Like where is, they used to run mesh routes all the time. get it, teams run a lot more zone now and you can’t always run mesh routes, but mesh routes can turn into zone beaters if a dude sits in the right hole because he read it right, right? Cause he had a good feel for the zone and whatnot. It feels like as the defense has gotten better,

Stephen Means (14:47.649)

the offense has gotten less creative and less innovative because we have a good defense. And it’s gone from a luxury to, in my opinion, a bit of a crutch.

Yeah, crunches is probably the right word for it. It really you mentioned there really kind of made me think about it like.

really wasn’t innovative this year. Like, I didn’t feel like things were particularly creative. Even tonight. Even tonight, yeah. Like, it was all the Ryan Davids greatest hits. It was bubble screens, it was pistol stretch to the field, Not to the boundary. you go. It just feels like if you cover this team long enough, you know what they are offensively. And everybody has staples. Well, we all called the bubble screen before the ball was snapped. I literally am looking at you guys like, bubble screen incoming. And you know what? It probably would have worked if Jeremiah Smith makes the block.

But the point of matter is if I know that and I don’t get paid $12 million a year, I don’t get paid X amount of money to scheme up a defense. What do you think the person who is getting paid X amount of money to scheme up the defense is thinking that it’s going to be in that situation? Now, great, worst case scenario, I get that. it’s just, it’s stagnation in the offensive coaching staff right now.

Because I don’t think it’s the players. You can’t the best player in college football and excuse me, at worst, the third best quarterback in college football this season. And it’d be the players like Cardinal taste gonna be a top 10 draft pick, right? Like Bo Jackson is a superstar in the making like I.

Stephen Means (16:25.901)

He I don’t know if he’s gonna be a first rounder because running backs are hard to be in the first rounder. But also like, can he be a first rounder the way Najee Harris was a first rounder in 2021 given what we saw from him in year one? it’s Max Clair was supposed to be the best receiving title in the country. Will Kazmeric is an awesome blocker.

It’s not the players, your skill position players are awesome. It just doesn’t feel like you’re putting them in positions to have success every single play. But then you’re asking your offensive line to do something that, from an eye test perspective, drop back passing game might be good for your weapons, but it’s not good for your offensive line. Yeah, then you’re continuously putting this pressure on your defense to be perfect while your offense is trying to figure it out. And at some point.

It’s going to break, right? If it continues to be asked to stand up and carry this team, right? Like it felt like I had kind of talked about this maybe on our game preview part, I think it was where I was saying like the defense is awesome, but you know, Indiana game, it’s like it was an awesome defense. But at some point, like you’re being asked, like make the stop. And that’s a really hard thing to do when all the pressure is on. And it felt like every time they went out there on defense in the second half against Miami, they had to make the stop and they struggled to do that. And you’re asking your defense

to do a lot and almost felt like a historically good defense was not just not wasted by an offense in the sense of like, you had a great defense. I’m like, you didn’t do anything with it. It was like, you had a great defense and you literally continuously kept asking them to be great. And at some point they were gonna break. And that’s kind of what it felt like happened, you know, late in the game there. It almost feels like Ohio State’s offense was responsible for struggles in every phase of the game. And I think what’s crazy is

They actually did though. The defense did get the stops. They got a key stop with 10, 16 left to play the game. And said, here you go, Ryan Day. Here you go, Julian Sand. We did our part. It is 17 to 14. And we just gave you the ball back with 10 minutes left in the game. We did our job. Go do yours.

Stephen Means (18:35.263)

And to be fair to Julian, first of all, 63 % completion percentage, that’s his lowest on the season, 22 or 35. But to be fair to him, he was doing it. The thing is, he was doing it against Indiana. He got him down there. He didn’t miss the field goal. He did it in this game. He got the completions, holding call. And now you’re right back where you started and it’s second and 20. So that’s why it’s hard to.

Jultonson didn’t play perfect today. I’m not going to act like he didn’t play perfect today. But he also played like a guy making his 14th start while his two losses were to two guys who were in their third year as a starter and six years a college football player. And I think for an animal does it was a two year starter in California.

One or two? okay, but like regardless like you he’s a younger dude in his first year as a starter and his two losses which are the two old guys he played during the regular season for being real here, right? Because like him and Arch were equal they had essentially the same amount of experience almost because I’m not counting Mississippi State.

in 2023 as experienced for Archmandy. I’m just not gonna do that. Bryce Underwood’s a true freshman. Ethan Kronkmeyer wasn’t even supposed to be their starting quarterback. are the, Demond Williams was the starter like halfway through the 2024 season. But like, right, but all these, it was all these dudes who…

were essentially in the same category as Julian. They were either in the same category as Julian Sand or they just weren’t good enough for it to matter that they were experienced. These are the first times where you had guys who were old and they were veteran and they were on teams that were good enough to actually do something about it. And so they made plays when Julian Sand didn’t necessarily make plays. But two games in a row, it looked like Julian Sand was ready to go make the drive and somebody missed a field goal. Somebody got a bad holding call. Cardinal Tate dropped the ball.

Stephen Means (20:22.058)

And that on that final drive, all these things compiled in a way where I don’t want to say the offense failed Julian Sand, but the offense starting with the coaches and their stagnation failed to put this offense in a position to have success for 60 minutes.

So you have the depth chart up from last year. Yeah. Why? Because so I pulled this up. This is from Nebraska week because it was the first one that popped up on a PDF. Funny how that works. Stephane said I didn’t. What did you say? I don’t want to say that they wasted a historic defense. Yeah, I disagree. I think they did because here’s the too deep from twenty twenty four.

And I’m not gonna run through every single name. You guys know the names. Hirukunnu was a transfer, so we’ll see what happens there. CJ Hicks, he redshirted, so we’ll see what happens there. Aaron Scott hasn’t played, so we’ll see what happens there. Malik Hartford was hurt all year, we’ll see what happens there. And then Lorenzo Stiles Jr., we’ll see. I don’t know what his NFL future is gonna be. I think every other player in that too deep.

From 24 and 25 because you gotta remember that’s Kaden Curry is a depth player Kaden McDonald is a depth player Kenyatta Jackson is a depth player Arvel Reese depth Jalen McClain depth all of those guys are gonna get drafted So that’s five of like maybe I don’t know and there’s some in there of just hey by the way It just went wrong

I look at that defense and I see every NFL starter got drafted in 24. And I see in this upcoming draft in 26, Sonny Styles is gonna go. I’m sorry, I think Sonny Styles is the first round pick. And I know people are not necessarily- You have to apologize for that. He’s like top 20 in ways big don’t know if people are necessarily willing to hear how great the defense is when they just gave up the most points. But like, Stephon’s right about the-

Stephen Means (22:26.92)

You relied on them all year. Eventually, when you put that much weight on someone or something, they’re going to crack. But like, I think Kay McDonald is probably a first round pick. I think he should be at least. I think Sonny Siles is a first round pick. I think Arville Reese is a first round pick. Caleb Downs is a first round pick. There’s four. And that does not include maybe a future that includes, I don’t know, depends what you think of Davis and Ibn Nosen. Depends how he tests, obviously.

I don’t know, it depends on what you think of, you know, a corner like Aaron Scott. Maybe he comes in and is great, know, Jermaine Matthews. But I think there’s four first round picks that were depth players on the 2014 and there was another one, a starter, Tyler Williams. And I just I run through those names to go. Ohio State, we talk about this concept a lot going into the spring. You know, there’s never really a rebuild with Ohio State. They’re recession proof. They reload. They don’t rebuild.

All those things are true. There’s not a guarantee you’re to have this anytime soon with four first round picks in one draft on one unit of the ball, right? Like there’s not a guarantee here. And, know, maybe I’m an idiot because it turns out in 27, it’s Julian and Jeremiah and you find two more on offense, right? Maybe, maybe something like that happens, but I don’t.

I think that this offense failed the defense clearly, but it also it left you kind of wanting more for what could have been statistically, historically a really good defense because we say the defense cracked under pressure and they didn’t, gave up that final drive.

Miami run the wall and Mark Fletcher had that big run to start things off and we went, oh man, they’re really cooked. This is actually over now. And they didn’t get off the field on third down and all those things are true. It’s not like they gave up 41. They gave up 17 points, which is the most points that this team had given up in 14 games. And the offense scored 14 points against Texas. And I know they put some restrictor plates on that offense, but they scored 14 against Texas.

Stephen Means (24:37.26)

They scored 10 against Indiana and they scored 14 against Miami. And in those games, they allowed seven.

They allowed 24 to Miami and they allowed 13. I’m sorry. You allowed seven and 13 points and 24 points. They’re technically 17. So 17, 13 and seven and you went one and two in those games. That is not good enough. I’m sorry. The offense coaching schematics, play calling personnel. It’s all got to be better because go look at those names and some of those guys that were great college players who maybe just didn’t get the NFL shine. I got like Jack Sawyer or

JT Tumaloa or Cody Simon. They were hell of football players on that defense. They were really, really good. And I think they wasted it. I think they wasted a defense that could still be very good next year. Think about all the talent that they’ve got. There’s no guarantee that what they had is ever going to happen in the near future. the problem is we could have said that last year. I agree. agree. at some point, the gravy train is going to stop. Every year, Ohio State is going to have four first round picks that come on defense. That’s just what

they do every year. I’m sorry, that’s crazy. That’s a really, really good run. Yeah, they’re a good football team. They just lost a good team. Okay, let’s take a break and then we’ll come back and let’s just kind of push this forward here because I don’t think we want to be right at the point here. So let’s take a break and then we’ll look forward a little bit here on Muckeye Talk.

We’re back in on Buckeye Talk. Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick, and Andrew Gillis after Ohio State’s 2014 loss to Miami. Their season is over while the Hurricanes move on to the Fiesta, although found that they find out their opponent on New Year’s Day when Georgia and Ole Miss play in the Sugar Bowl. What a great way for us to come down midnight. It’s, we’re already at 11.56 Central time, so we get to…

Stephen Means (26:28.534)

I don’t think anyone wants to hear us sing or come down or anything like that, but it’s about to happen live on Book Hight Talk for us. Yeah, we’re not going to sing Auld Lang Syne if that’s what you’re curious about.

Stephen Means (26:42.06)

Ohio State fans, it’s…

It’s time for petition. No more New Year’s Eve games. was going to say they’ve lost three times. They lost no more. In 2016, they only scored. They didn’t score against Clemson. And again, after not winning the big championship and back door and they were into the college football playoff, lost to Clemson on New Year’s Eve. In 2022, after back door and they were away into the college football playoff, they lost to Georgia on New Year’s Eve. In 2025, they didn’t back door the way and they were going to get in regardless. They just didn’t win the Big Ten. And they lost to Miami on New Year’s Eve. I think you’re onto something. No more New Year’s games.

for dumber things related to Ohio State football. I think that should be a thing. No more New Year’s Eve games. Priority number one, Stefan, for you when it comes to Ohio State this offseason. Priority number one is to tell Gillis to put his phone on silent when we’re recording the podcast. think priority number one is nailing down this offensive staff, whatever that combination kind of looks like.

There’s so many ways to go, Ryan, because I think what you decided to do with Kaden Bailey is probably telling right as you could. It almost feels like he is.

the guy who’s going to be the receivers coach. Like if there was betting odds on it, and I know betting odds mean nothing when a team that was just favored by nine and a half. There’s heavy odds that he would be the receivers coach. Okay, does that come with him be the offensive coordinator or do you move him to receivers coach and move Tyler Bowen to tight ends coach where he has experience in the past and hired offensive line coach and maybe Tyler Bowen who has experience calling plays as well could be the offensive coordinator. It’s interesting where they want to go. And I know, Steven, one thing you want to talk about is, you know, this idea of

Stephen Means (28:22.286)

new blood and having different voices. How would you feel about Tyler Bowen as an owner? Would that be enough new blood for you if Tyler Bowen was here? If they were in the room in 2025, they are not allowed to call players in 2026. And that’s with all due respect to the people in the room. They are from very, very smart people who have very, very bright futures. Ask play callers one day. Ryan Day needs his own Ryan Day.

Go back to, I mentioned the 2016 game, and if you remember, the offense had kind of grown stagnant and wasted an elite defense. Gil, as you’re talking about this year, you wanna know who was on the 2016 defense? Nick Bosa, Garyon Conley, Marshawn Latimore, Malik Hooker.

There’s dudes on that defense, man. They had three first rounders in that year and then Nick Bosa would be a first rounder later. So yeah, they’ve had four before on those defenses and it felt like it got wasted because their offense was essentially Curtis Samuel and the play calling was for squat for a lack of a better word to use there and it felt like

JT Barrett had regressed as a quarterback and it was time to bring in new blood. So what did Urban Meyer go do that off season? He went and got Kevin Wilson and he went and got Ryan Day. And look at what has happened with the offense since then. JT Barrett had a very good year in 2017. Dwayne Haskins threw for 50 tugs in 2018. Justin Fields showed up and was an awesome quarterback in the first round draft big. TJ Schrau was a first round draft big and back to back Heisman Trophy finalist. Kyle McCord, like the floor became Kyle McCord.

Who was third team all big 10? That’s what I’m saying. Like floor, like Kyle McCord level quarterback play all of a sudden wasn’t good enough anymore. Who, that’s what happened here. And I think here we are again, almost 10 years later from that Clemson game, from that New Year’s Eve loss. And I feel like Ryan Day is in the same position that Urban Myers and it’s not as bad. Cause it’s not like they’re in shutout and playoff games, but.

Stephen Means (30:26.188)

Back in 2023 after they lost, he gave up play calling.

and he gave it up to Bill O’Brien. And I remember in like the one presser we got to talk with Ryan Day about it, he was talking about how Bill O’Brien had come in here and he was like, you know, just offering new ideas and whatnot that maybe they had never really thought of before. Unfortunately, that didn’t work out because Bill O’Brien ended up taking the job at Boston College within like two weeks after he got here. So whatever. So he went to Chip Kelly, which worked out. They won a national title, that’s Chip Kelly and Ryan Day speak the same language.

So even that was more of the same. Okay, Chip Kelly leaves after one year and you promote literally like the… his college football son. If Chip Kelly is Ryan Day’s college football father, then Brian Hartman is his college football like little brother. You promoted him. Okay, so that’s more of the same. Keenan Bailey’s been here since 2016. That’s more of the same. Tyler Bowen, sure he’s only been here for a year, but like that’s still gonna be concept level, like more of the same.

They need a dude who’s not from the tree, who is, who when they think, hey, we should go right, he thinks about going left. And that guy brings in new blood, new ideas, new things to the table. I wasn’t that Ryan Day, but you guys were. And one of the first things you guys said to me is when they were talking, he got asked about the offense and the organization and whether people were on the same page. And Caleb Downs and Julian Sand, who had been looking down at their feet, entire press are all of a sudden.

poked up their eyes are like, day, how you gonna answer that question? As if they already knew the answer was no. So they don’t, I don’t want anybody who already is in the bloodline. Sure. I don’t even want a cousin. Go get married.

Stephen Means (32:15.692)

This is like this is like my big happy new year. Yeah, this is like my big fat Greek wedding. Yes, just like begging somebody to get married. It’s time to have your big fat Greek wedding. The thing the thing that I will say it’s like think about it like in any other situation like think about this podcast for those that have been listening for a while. We have two new people come on the podcast in the last two years. You know what happened when I showed up? I started saying on the ball.

Sometimes they should do that. like Steven and you know what happens? Sometimes you can adjust. Steven looked at me one point and said, hey, they’re running the ball pretty well and it’s really helped them. He doesn’t doesn’t mean he’s like become this make this the focal point. don’t want to run the triple option. He’s not saying make this the focal point of your offense. Stefan tweeted a photo of me earlier in the day describing on a whiteboard how to do the single wing spinner series, which is a whole nother point. Nobody should be running that point. But here’s the thing. It’s like, I don’t know.

people have different points of views, have different experiences, people see things a different way. And when I show up or when Stefan shows up, we say, well, what about this? And maybe you disagree, maybe you agree, maybe you say, I never thought of it that way. Maybe you say, never thought of it that way, but I think you’re wrong. Maybe you say, never thought of it that way, but I think you’re an idiot. Like whatever it is, styles change and you can add new perspectives because Stefan mentioned it about the defense.

Larry Johnson stayed, James Laurinetta stayed, Tim Walton stayed, Macquarie stayed, a lot of those defensive guys stayed and I know there were people in the building like…

He brought in like a GA who was defense coordinator the Dolphins whose name is silver my mind right now But it’s like you bring in some of your people and then I don’t know You’re just standing up at the whiteboard and you just make like an extra line or you say what if we did? This what if we did X instead of Y we’ll keep everything the same But if we just move this guy five yards this way, I think you saw that it just gives you a different look You saw that with Matt Patricia, right? You your whole defense of staff

Stephen Means (34:10.688)

you know, stay in place aside from the coordinator. And when Patricia came in and they tweaked a few things, it’s like, I don’t know, the defense got better. He literally changed the entire computer system. Right. The computer system, let alone what they were doing on the computer system, Stefan. Yeah. And it makes you more versatile. the computer system. When you told me he told you that, was in awe.

I didn’t mean to cut you off, but that’s just insane to me to even think about. it’s just new blood. It’s that time for some new blood. here’s the reason why. You talked about the defensive side and feel like you wasted the defense. I am coming to terms with the fact that what I got to experience in 2021 with this offense probably is not going to happen again.

One, because they have a good enough defense now that CJ Stroud doesn’t have to throw the ball 50 times a game anymore. Whoever the quarterback is, doesn’t have to throw the ball 50 times a game anymore. But also, Brian Hartlund is walking out the door, so we have to see who they’re gonna hire as wide receivers coach. Also, they had three first round draft picks.

Jackson Smith and Jigba might be the best wide receiver in the NFL right now. He might be the NFL Offensive Player of the Year. Chris Olave finally got a quarterback who’s not throwing the medicine balls and he had 100 catches and a thousand yards this year. Garrett Wilson has had the most putrid quarterback play for his entire career and yet we all keep watching him be awesome when he’s healthy. This is the first year of his career he’s not going to have a thousand yards. And behind that they had the dude who might win the NFL Rookie of the Year.

and the best wide receiver, the most decorated wide receiver in the program history who couldn’t get on the field because those three were ahead of them. I don’t know if the room will ever look like that again. I don’t know if it won’t. I just don’t know if it will right now. So all those, plus a true freshman five-star running back who was as explosive as can humanly be. Like there was a lot at play for why they were as explosive as that. I don’t know if we’ll ever get that again because they can run the ball a little bit and the defense is good. But we’re going too far away from that.

Stephen Means (36:18.091)

Right? We went from like all three of those guys essentially being thousand yards receivers to I think Jeremiah Smith, the only thousand yard receiver this year. And the only reason Mecca Bucca got over is because they played 16 games in 2024. just. They need new blood because it’s got stagnant. And as a result, I feel like the production of the offense, even if the talent, especially on the perimeter quarterback, especially this year, hasn’t fallen that far off.

For whatever reason, the offense has regressed. And so now it’s time for the people who all think alike to get somebody in here who’s gonna go, well, that’s stupid. Well, that’s actually Junius. We should keep doing this. What if we did things this way?

And if they do that, think everything else we’re talking about, whether it’s how they evaluate offensive linemen in the recruiting trail, how they approach offense, the rest of the offensive coaching staff and how that all falls in line. Julian Sands development. Jeremiah Smith, who is going into his final year as an Ohio State football player, getting the most out of Brandon and it’s getting the most out of Bo Jackson and Isaiah West and then James Peeples and whoever Johnny Thurman is in the portal. So he’s not going to be here and whoever else right now, everybody.

This offense is too good.

to do what it did this year. And if that means there needs to be somebody who has, with fresh eyes, can come look at it and we get a different result, that is what needs to happen. Because if not, you’re not gonna stand still. You’re gonna progress, you’re gonna regress. And they are starting to regress offensively. And you look at the names who are on this offense and it doesn’t make sense why they’re regressing. I think the simplest way that I can say this, I don’t know where…

Stephen Means (38:02.771)

against it. think the simplest way to do it is…

Ohio State needs to find out what it is and perhaps more importantly what it is not. And it needs to make adjustments from there. needs to find out where it is lacking. And I think you need to find ways to counteract that because as Stephen has said before, lose way they lose in ways that are very, similar to ways that they have lost in the past. We did not even talk about a five yard illegal procedure penalty on a punt late in the game that

cost you 20 yards because Malachi Tony was fair caught at the 10 and the next punt went to the 30 and he fair caught it there and it cost you 20 yards. Little stuff like that adds up and I think Ohio State, I know it’s an offensive thing that you were making the point of, they haven’t been good on special teams in the last two years. They’ve never been good on special teams. Why? So figure that out. They need to find out who they are, what they are, and like I said, more importantly, what they are not.

Well, I think the way Ryan Daney’s approached this is…

Go hire the best offensive coordinator. I think that’s what he did last year in defense. Go hire the best defensive coordinator. Who wouldn’t want to JJ and Julian? Right. Go hire the best offensive coordinator, no matter how removed from Ohio State that guy is, and figure out the rest from there. Don’t go into this, I’m not saying Ryan Day would, but don’t go into saying, we know we have to promote keen ability to receivers, and we have to do this with Tyler Bowen, and then here’s where we’re approach it from here.

Stephen Means (39:35.308)

hire the best offensive coordinator. And if that guy happens to be the receivers coach, then okay, Keenan and Tyler Bones say where they are. If that guy happens to be a tight ends coach, then okay, Keenan moves to receivers. If that guy, I doubt you would have an offensive line coach who’s also an offensive coordinator, but if that’s what the best guy is gonna do, then that’s what the best guy is gonna do and you adjust that. So I think what’s very important for Ohio State is, and for Ryan Day is make the best move and then figure it out from there. And I think Ohio State kind of has that luxury that a lot of programs don’t. I think maybe Ryan Day saw

that last year with bat patricia like hey you you don’t necessarily have to like scramble to get someone because you’re ohio state you’ll still get that best option regardless of the timing of it so that that’s what he’s to do here is go find the best option no matter if it’s someone who bleeds scarlet and gray or if it’s someone who cannot stand ohio state but now wants a job as an offensive coordinator

Stephen Means (40:28.651)

Let’s go get it done, With that being said, if Julian Sand doesn’t throw a pick six because Jeremiah Smith missed the block, they probably win the football game and we sound like we’re nitpicking again. Also, just one more thing on the future. There’s a really interesting conversation to have about the offensive line.

because a month ago we were saying, holy crap, all five of these guys are coming back. They’re have this outside of the Teng Road. Like they’re gonna have four starters coming back on the offensive line. I don’t think anyone listening to this podcast right now wants all four. Now that sounds like a threat. Yes. Yeah. Whether it’s evaluation and like trenches are so difficult in the portal, but like you have to evaluate everything right now. Yeah. And it starts at the offensive line. It’s like, I think the conversation, at least for us, maybe within the program they were having this conversation already like,

It’s shifted in the last month. And that’s another interesting thing that the staff is gonna have to manage. The portal opens in like 24 hours as you’re listening to this. So get ready. I guess it depends on who goes in the portal from an offensive line perspective. And the reason why is, I mean, it’s no different than, we actively, especially against Indiana saw how you get hit like four times in the first half. It’s gonna impact how Julian Sam plays football. You get burned, you don’t wanna put your hand on the stove anymore.

There’s a million dollars that was sitting on the sideline for Ohio State on the offensive line room. You don’t. You’re supposed to protect Julian Sands blinds and he was going to play right guard. He was he was supposed to protect Julian Sands. He went from this is their left tackle to OK, well he’s gonna play right tackle because Austin Cerebell is pretty good to OK, maybe he’s gonna play right guard to old. They’re rotating right guard, but it’s not with him to the second year. Right guard is now playing right. Who was the backup left tackle?

before the second bye week to think about it. Austin Cerevelle left the game and it was Ian Moore who came in. I mean, Ohio State’s on their third right guard. Every time there was an opportunity for a guy who they paid it like, I was like a, I genuinely they paid a million dollars for a portal offensive lineman. And every time there was an opportunity for the million dollar offensive lineman to get on the field, they kind of went out of their way to make sure he wasn’t the guy who was being prepared to go on the field.

Stephen Means (42:43.657)

When you miss like that, CJ Donaldson was good, but he wasn’t, I mean, the 24th portal class was insane. That’s part of the thing here. Like they hit on every single portal edition in 2024. CJ Donaldson was good, but he wasn’t great. Philip Daniels was good, was okay, but he wasn’t great. Max Clair, good season. And like I said before, Gillis ends up being right that he had more than 30 catches through the first 12 games of the season. I’ll own that. But like, did he have the type of impact that you were putting behind those catches?

Probably not. So yeah, he had the counting stats, but the impact wasn’t felt quite that way. They missed heavy on the transfer portal. I am, it’s, it’s, you’ve already seen the impact on the recruiting trail. Cause this is the largest class they’ve signed since Ryan Day has been the head coach. I am wondering how that’s impacting how cautious they might be in the portal when you are not wrong. That if I Jordan Seton hops in the portal, go get Jordan Seton.

I don’t care how much it costs, but when you have been burned the way they’ve been burned, I do wonder what the impact that is on how you go about things. They got a kicker in the portal. couldn’t beat Jayden Fielding. They got a kicker in the portal and he couldn’t beat out Jayden Fielding who missed a game winning field goal against Indiana, missed multiple chip shots against Michigan a year ago, and they put him out there today and he missed it in Ryan’s day said, no, we’re throwing a slap pass to Jeremiah Smith the rest of the game.

Burn bad. don’t know if anybody else is. I wonder how many teams got burned as badly as Ohio State did about the 2025 quarter. Because it ended up around it. Because even Isaiah World at Oregon, he was not great. He wasn’t great. for what they probably paid. Right. So I am wondering what like how that impacts some schools who maybe felt like they got burned in the portal who are in Ohio State, Oregon’s positions where they can develop through the portal. So there is is no more pressure of.

Guys got a job. Yeah, guys got a job. You got to recruit all this and that. I don’t know if it doesn’t end being with Tyler Bowen moving to tight ends coach, then you’ve got a decision to make with your offensive line coach. Yeah, he’s got to step in and do it. yeah. Well, so there’s that 614-350-3315. We’ll continue to dive into this stuff because there’s no more football games planned. There’s going be a lot to get into. But I think every single position group, I think we might just grade and evaluate every single position groups in the coming weeks. But get the text 614-35-3315. The portal is open.

Stephen Means (45:03.659)

In 24 hours from now is the time you’re listening this over. We’ll still be plenty of news and analysis to come from Buckeye Talk. In the meantime, for Stefan Christen and Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means. Talk to you guys later.